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Australian Red Cattle Dog 
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 11
Location: South Australia
I was getting really confused with all the dog breeds being mentioned here with the prefix of Australian. I am Australian and I don't know what they are! let alone the crosses!!

So, I follow some thread advise and go to dogbreedinfo.com to look for pictures or the Australian use common names. I figure out I know them all, just under different names. Then I don't find my favourite breed of dog there! I want to know if anyone outside Australia has come across them under a different name, or if you have even ever seen them.

The Red Cattle Dog is different from the Australian Cattle Dog (which I know as a Blue Heeler). The Blue Heeler does have a ginger/red coat variety, but it still looks like a Heeler. Red Cattle dogs have pointier noses, thick necks and slimmer legs. They are always some shade of red-chocolate with yellow or gold eyes.

As they are both Cattle dogs they have similar personalities and needs, though Red Cattle dogs tend to be more protective of their owners (and property) which can lead to agressiveness, but that makes them better cattle dogs for snake prone areas. All the Red Cattle dogs I have known were excellent snakers.

Blue Heeler and a Red Heeler (Australian Cattle Dogs)
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Red Cattle Dog
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(there was an Australian movie made recently, so there are lots of images if you google 'Red Dog')

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:40 am
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Is it maybe what we call a Kelpie?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Kelpie

Makes sense that you've never heard of Australian Shepards before. They actually aren't really an Australian breed,but originally from Basque. Not really sure why we call them Australian Shepards.

Here we call both Red and Blue Heelers, Australian Cattle Dogs.

And Texas Heelers are crosses between Australian Cattle Dogs and Australian Sheperds.

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:04 am
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:58 pm
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Location: South Australia
Quote:
Is it maybe what we call a Kelpie?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Kelpie


icon_biggin.gif we call the Kelpies too icon_biggin.gif

they are not Kelpies, though most of them are probably crossed with Kelpies (the one in the movie was). They are generally smaller than kelpies and their fur is different. Like Kelpies, they have the short fine fur on their heads and legs but unlike a Kelpie they have a ruff (like a long haired border collie) and long brisly fur along their backs (but not in a ridge). This stays regardless of weather temperatures, it isn't just a Kelpie winter coat. Though it is possible that the purebred Red Cattle dogs were part Dingo, but because of state regulations on Dingo hybrid that part of the heritage was ignored....


EDIT: I know Kelpies and Dingoes have a long breeding history, the body structure and jumping ability is all Dingo, but Dingoes and Kelpies don't have back brisles even if left out in the weather year round (well maybe in Tasmania in winter when it snows, but then it is shed off in summer) I'll hunt for a picture of Holly or Ned in my photos to get a good picture of one.

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:58 am
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Location: Texas
Koolies maybe then? Although,they look to be the wrong color:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koolie

We also have something we call an Australian Stumpy Tailed Cattle Dog,but they look to be the wrong color too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian ... Cattle_Dog

Also, I looked up the film on Wikipedia as well. It says that the dog that the film was based on was Kelpie/Australian Cattle Dog cross but doesn't say anything about what breed of dog was used in the actual film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Dog_(film)



Sorry. I can't find any info on this breed if it's not one of the two above or a Kelpie.

Edit: Found red coolies:
http://www.australian-koolies.info/Gall ... _4081.html

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... _merle.jpg


Edit again:
Found a Uk article that says the dog used in the film was a Kelpie crossed with a Cattle Dog(I assume they mean an Australian Cattle Dog as we call them)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog ... -bernieres

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:22 am
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Actually, I think that the Red and Blue "Heelers" are the same breed. On Wikipedia (Not the most reliable source, but... ) it says that the red is just a different color of the Australian Cattle Dog. Perhaps the breeders in your area breed both for a color and certain temperament making the Red a better snaker than the Blue. I don't have a lot of experience with Australian Cattle Dogs but I do own an Australian Shepherd which was named after the sheep it used to heard (or so it is rumored, they actually weren't descended from Australia). The Australian Shepherd comes in a "blue" merle and a "red" merle which I see to be similar to the Cattle Dog's color variations. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Cattle_Dog

If you look under Coat and Color, it kind of explains how the coats come in too. Very interesting.

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:42 pm
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Oops. I completely misunderstood what was going on. Ya'll already established that it wasn't a heeler.

Sorry about that!!!!! :P

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:44 pm
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I've noticed red heelers to be a little calmer than blue but that just might be the specific reds I've meet. I also have and australian shepherd! I've heard about the sheep thing, and supposedly some of the dogs that were used to create them came from Australia. So the beginning crosses were often called Aussie crosses. There is so much debate on early dog breed history it's often hard to find the exact beginning of things.


Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:33 pm
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I was actually just reading up on several different dog breeds and a lot of them have questionable pasts! Its interesting to see that the herding breeds were chosen more for their skills than for a standard. I feel like much of the history of a herding dog can't be traced because of this. If anyone has anymore information on dog history, I would like to hear it!

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Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:57 pm
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Its interesting to see that the herding breeds were chosen more for their skills than for a standard.

That is definately true, because they are for working, so it doesn't really matter what the dog looks like, though body structure does count somewhat. My Grandparents used to breed working Border Collies, one stud was light build for the fast grouping work (most of his pups went to work with sheep in different parts of Australia) while the other stud was very large, he possibly had some Bernese Mountain in him, but very good at herding in bush. All his pups were bought by neighbours who worked cattle in the area.

Still looking for photos of a Red Cattle Dog, there are no real pictures on the internet. I'll have to search my photo boxes when I get home. (so you may end up seeing a baby photo of me :red-face: )
Though I had a chat with my Mother about her old dog who was a Kelpie, which led me to believe that Red Cattle Dogs may only be recognised in northern country New South Wales, and then only by the local people there (seeing as I can find little to no information on the internet, and none of you have heard of them). Plus I got the discription of the eyes wrong, they ar 'white' not yellow or gold, think a yellow version of husky ice blue.

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Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:59 am
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Are you sure it's not the same thing as a Kelpie and the local people just call it by the slang term "Red Heeler" or "Red Cattle Dog"?

Or maybe they are jut mutts crossed for working purposes and not a real breed.
Perhaps Australian Cattle Dog x Kelpie like the dog in the movie?

I asked someone on youtube who said they were from Australia and they said the dog in the movie just looked like a kelpie to them and they had no idea what I was talking about about a Red Cattle Dog or Red Heeler if I didn't mean the Australian Cattle Dog.

Because Kelpie are working dogs mostly breed for performance it could be possible that there are some kelpies larger than others and with thicker neck fur.

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Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:28 pm
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:58 pm
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Quote:
Are you sure it's not the same thing as a Kelpie and the local people just call it by the slang term "Red Heeler" or "Red Cattle Dog"?

Or maybe they are jut mutts crossed for working purposes and not a real breed.
Perhaps Australian Cattle Dog x Kelpie like the dog in the movie?

I asked someone on youtube who said they were from Australia and they said the dog in the movie just looked like a kelpie to them and they had no idea what I was talking about about a Red Cattle Dog or Red Heeler if I didn't mean the Australian Cattle Dog.


Red Heeler is just a ginger colour variation on the Blue Heeler.

They are probably a very mixed breed, as they can throw Kelpies and vice-versa, but not to be confused with Red Cloud Kelpies from WA (which is the dog from Red Dog...not a Red Cattle Dog. My Bad earlier). From everyone I have met who knows about Red Cattle dogs, they believe them to be a seperate breed aswell, though the only people who seem to know this breed come from only one state in Austalia, NSW. So, it is not only the dogs I have met which are markedly different from Kelpies, but there seems to be a breed difference which is maintained as characteristics distinct to each type, Kelpie vs Red Cattle Dog, which is not mingled much through breeding but is an either or characteristic which can be dorment for generatons.

I originally wanted to post to see if anyone else had heard of this breed wherever in the world you live, but now I think the breed is not at all recognised by dog societies. And mostly would be mixed up with the Red Cloud Kelpies from WA as they are both similar colours, though they are not. They are a noticably different breed type if anything, though people don't recognise them as 'Kelpies'.

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Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:04 am
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Maybe they are a very rare breed specific to just your part of Australia? That could be possible.

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